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single organ dose limit Posted by Ilonka Guenther on October 30, 2003, 3:40 am 155.91.6.71 Hello I am working on the dosimetry part of a clinical protocol for a new PET tracer. The clinical center in Europe is following ICRP62 guidlines where the radiation dose for volunteers is given under section IIB with 1-10mSv for the ED but no single organ dose limit. I don't have the full ICRP62 and cannot find a limiting value or range for single organ. Can anyone provide me with that value and the reference for it? Alternativley are their any recommendations out to follow especially for Europe? I am especially looking for the excreting organs like gallbladder, intestine and bladder which have a low weighing factor (except gallbladder which doesn't seem to have one). Thanks for any input in this matter. Kind regards, Ilonka Re: single organ dose limit Posted by Nick Oldnall on October 30, 2003, 12:35 pm, in reply to "single organ dose limit" 195.107.47.4 Ilonka, a friend of mine (thanks Peter from Salford) suggests you the following nuclear medicine mailing lists NucMedTech@yahoogroups.com nuclear-reporting@lists.salford.ac.uk Nick CASSETTES Posted by Nick Oldnall on October 29, 2003, 9:56 pm, in reply to "Cassets (i forgot subject)" 81.174.204.131 I,m not sure what you mean here! Cassettes - do you mean screens ? or the physical casette supporting the screens? Cassettes tend these days to be specificaly designed to work in individual manufacturers daylight machines. There are a whole series of qualities or properties of cassettes which are design features eg curved backs to facilitate good film scren contact and low absorbtion fronts of carbon fibre to reduce cassette absorbtion. Screens are designed to produce light from x-rays with trade offs between efficiency and image quality. Before CR where cassette size is not really related to film size you use the size of cassette most closely matched to the subject size, ie an adult pelvis may require a 35 x 43 cm cassette whilst a babies pelvis may require an 18 x 24 cm cassette. With CR there are often only limited film sizes and the ability to reduce the image size from life size to a reduced size may save on film costs, however some manufaturese do not make small laser film so a finger or baby chest may have to be printed on a film much larger than true image size.. Cassette sizes are related to old photographic film size and then converted to metric.. Hope this helps if not be a litle more specific with the question and I will try again! (no subject) Posted by JP on October 29, 2003, 10:25 pm, in reply to "njo/Re: Cassets (i forgot subject)" 195.92.168.168 What I actually wanted was to know if there is specific film sizes for areas of the body. I had cassette size written down as my learning objective which is probably why I was having trouble fidning information. Thanks for your help though. radiography awareness week Posted by Nick Oldnall on October 29, 2003, 6:41 pm, in reply to "radiography awareness week" 81.174.203.69 World radiography day is 8th NOvemeber The radiography awareness week is the following week I think! My journals are at work I'm sure there was a mention in Synergy Re: njo/Re: radiography awareness week Posted by sharon on October 30, 2003, 6:42 am, in reply to "njo/Re: radiography awareness week" 81.102.117.95 cheers nick - couldn't find any info anywhere Xray of Hand Posted by Nick Oldnall on October 29, 2003, 9:03 am, in reply to "Xray of Hand" 195.107.47.4 Hi You need to think of the causes of unsharpness.. Movement - Patient & Equipment Geometric - focus size - FFD relative to SFD Photographic - Film screen choice and contact System - if using CD or DR then photgraphic is less relevant.. So for a hand... Imobilisation of patient Ensure tube movement locks are on and vibration minimised... Fine focus, hand in good contact with film FFD at least 100cm Fine film screen combination CR / DR High resolution setting radiation dose in Cornwall njo/Re: radiation dose in Cornwall njo/2/Re: radiation dose in Cornwall Posted by Nick Oldnall on October 29, 2003, 8:13 am, in reply to "radiation dose in Cornwall" 195.107.47.4 FURTHER INFORMATION fom an interesting article at http://home.clara.net/camplin/TNotes/Chap2.htm Initially two organisations carried out national radon testing in Britain, the NRPB and Track Analysis Systems Limited at the University of Bristol on behalf of the IEHO. In 1990, in response to a perceived need for radon measurements, the NRPB introduced a scheme for commercial measurements and a number of companies, including Track Analysis Systems Ltd. now offer commercial radon measurements. After carrying out a national survey, the NRPB have concentrated most of their subsequent efforts in the highest radon areas namely in Cornwall, Devon and Somerset. The IEHO published its third national survey in 1991. A most interesting result of the IEHO surveys is the observation of the phenomenon of radon 'hot-spots', which refers to a geographical locality where genuinely high radon levels are found over and above the general spread. The UK average radon concentration of 20 Bq m-3 is obviously made up of a spread of readings including some very high ones. The first national IEHO survey carried out in 1987/8 found high radon areas in South and Mid-Glamorgan, parts of the West Midlands, Staffordshire and Cumbria. This was in addition to areas of the South-West, Derbyshire and Southern Scotland already identified by the NRPB. The results of a second national IEHO survey in 1988/9, published in January 1991, found 20 previously unknown 'hot-spots' all over the UK; the highest value found was over 3,200 Bq m-3 in a property in Shropshire. Several surveys undertaken by schoolchildren have also revealed a number of previously unknown radon 'hot-spots', HELP!!! Posted by Nick Oldnall on October 28, 2003, 12:34 pm, in reply to "HELP!!!" 195.107.47.4 Here is a table I have emailed you the rest of an interesting article Nick Imaging modality Advantages Disadvantages Ultrasonography Lower cost Suboptimal in obese patients Widely available Suboptimal in patients with increased bowel gas Noninvasive Increased interobserver variation Aortography Visualize renovascular disease Invasive Identifies anomalous vessels Higher cost Aids placement of endovascular stent grafts Increased patient morbidity Underestimates aneurysm size Exposure to iodinated contrast MRI Noninvasive Higher cost Lack of ionizing radiation Motion artifact Contraindications with metal clips and pacemakers Patient claustrophobia Availability of scanner and software CT Noninvasive Use of ionizing radiation Highly predictive of aneurysm size Higher cost compared with ultrasonography Localize proximal extent of aneurysm Limited information regarding arterial anatomy Identify other abdominal pathology Procedure of choice for suspected rupture Helical CT and CTA Noninvasive Higher cost Faster scanning time Lack of availability of scanner and software Use in conjunction with endovascular stent grafts Use of ionizing radiation Assistant Practitioners This spurred me on to get a first class honours degree. I have been
in continuous employment from the day I qualified, and am now at Super 3
level. skull ossification centres Posted by Nick Oldnall on October 28, 2003, 8:17 am, in reply to "skull ossification centres" 195.107.47.4 Hi Angela This is a bit difficult the information does not seem to be readily available! even in Caffeys book! The skull does not seem to have definate ossification centres as it developes from membranes.. you may be more interested in the suture closure dates... Below is an explanation of the general ossification hope you get on OK in the viva I think ossifictaion centres of the skull is a bit over the top for a year 3 viva! good luck Nick There are two fontanelles (the space between the bones of an infant's skull where the sutures intersect) that are covered by tough membranes. The fontanelles include: anterior fontanelle (Also called soft spot.) - the junction where the two frontal and two parietal bones meet. The anterior fontanelle remains soft until about 2 years of age. posterior fontanelle - the junction of the two parietal bones and the occipital bone. The posterior fontanelle usually closes first, before the anterior fontanelle, during the first several months of an infant's life. Origin of bones: All bones of the skull originate by ossification of mesenchyme, but the basic framework (chondrocranium) arises from ossification of cartilage ventral to the brain of the embryo, while most of the cranial vault arises by direct ossification inmembrane, (desmocranium) providing the sheet-like plates of bone ('squamous') bone ofthe cranial vault. These squamous bone generally have two compact layers, an inner andan outer table, separated by cancellous bone or diploë.The bones of the cranial vault are covered with periosteum, like any other bone; on the outside it is the pericranium, on the inside the endocranium, which is continuous with outer zone of the dura mater covering the brain. The bones of the skull articulate at sutures, which basically involve a sutural ligament, which is simply connective tissue, corresponding to the unossified part of the mesenchyme sheet. After the late 20's, the sutural ligaments are gradually ossified so that the suture is obliterated
Posted by angela on October 28, 2003, 9:07 am, in reply to "njo/Re:
skull ossification centres" Stochastic effects of radiation njo/Re: Stochastic effects of radiation Posted by Nick Oldnall on October 27, 2003, 10:40 pm, in reply to "Stochastic effects of radiation" 81.174.200.81 Its roughly a 1 in 100,000 chance or it being radiation induced from a single image and 1 in three will get cancer in their life time.. manual handling Posted by Nick Oldnall on October 27, 2003, 2:02 pm, in reply to "manual handling" 195.107.47.4 Hi Emma As manual handling comes under HSE I should try contacting them or the SOR as they help persue claims etc in this field. you may be lucky if you contact the Occupational Health dept or Journal of occupational health ... mobile trauma chest x-ray patient positioning Posted by Nick Oldnall on October 28, 2003, 8:21 am, in reply to "mobile trauma chest x-ray patient positioning" 195.107.47.4 Hi Andy , Supine Film Decreases Lung Volume Highlights infiltrates and interstitium Increases venous return to heart Distends azygous vein and pulmonary vein Diaphragm rises and intracardiac pressure increases Heart and mediastinal structures enlarge Fluid and air migrate Semi-upright position (neither standing nor supine) May enlarge normal structures Changes air-fluid levels Lordosis or vertical axis rotation Widens heart and mediastinum Supine (Portable Chest XRay) Anteroposterior (AP) Film Magnifies heart and anterior mediastinum Emphasizes rib and calcium contrast Lung parenchyma may appear washed out Pleural Effusions disappear Small Pneumothorax disappears Air-Fluid levels (e.g. Lung Abscess) disappear Pneumothorax signs on supine film Deep Sulcus sign Costophrenic angle sharply outlined by air Diaphragm-mediastinal junction sharply outlined Hyperlucency superimposed over liver shadow fat pads Posted by Nick Oldnall on October 22, 2003, 10:20 pm, in reply to "fat pads" 81.174.207.97 When present in a patient with a history of acute trauma to the elbow, the fat pad sign indicates the presence of an intra-articular hemorrhage, which in turn is often associated with an intra-articular skeletal injury (usually the radial head in an adult). Have a look in my Radpath index under Fat pad Cheers Nick Posted by sam on October 22, 2003, 12:22 pm
195.107.47.4 Hi Sam.. Well done, congratualtiuons on your promotion, good to hear you made it and the website was helpful... All the best Nick Posted by caroline hewitt on October 22, 2003, 9:52 am 195.107.47.4 The DOH site has info at http://www.doh.gov.uk/radiography/smprojects.htm Also The SOR website has info... radiation dose re hands wrists Diagnostic procedure Limbs and joints (except hip) <0.01 Typical effective dose (mSv) <1.5 days Equivalent period of natural background radiation* 1 in a few million Risk of fatal cancer per examination** Found on xray2000 at http://www.xray2000.f9.co.uk/Site3/regsetc/effectivedose.htm Posted by caroline hewitt on October 21, 2003, 1:08 pm 138.253.175.2 liverpool university, u.k can anyone please tell the the different types of cassettes used in x rays and also for how many are the x rays kept in the dept before they are destroyed. thanks Posted by Nick Oldnall on October 21, 2003, 2:32 pm, in reply to "diagnostic radiography" 195.107.47.4 Different films are kept for different times! In Gloucester we keep 3 years of films 15 years of results ie since installation of the computer system Mammos at least 10 years.. When you look at this problem it is often the term results which needs clarification, do you mean the actual films or the repotrs of the films.. One way to look at it is Path lab dont keep all the urine samples they just keep the results... Posted by Nick Oldnall on October 21, 2003, 2:28 pm, in reply to "diagnostic radiography" 195.107.47.4 Hi Caroline I,m not sure if you mean cassettes or screens. Casstettes there are the regular sizes 35 x 43 35 x 35 30 x 40 24 x 30 18 x 24 + specials for OPG, long lengths, graduated etc These cassettes are available with different selling / operational points from different manufacturers, eg low absorbtion front, curved screens to elininate trapped air, various opening catches for daylight opertion etc... If you mean screens there are a variety of screens to match the various light sensitivities of film (or the other way round) but screens are generally catagorised by speed and the speed generally has a trade of in resolution, but they are usually matched to film to provide film screen combinations with certain charachteristics ir low contrast, high contrast, latitude tec.
81.131.192.246 as a third year student at portsmouth university i must agree with the comment made by by the "concerned student" earlier today. i am currently £7,000 in debt and for what reason? assistant practitioners are making their way into the profession through the back door. by doing this taking away the staus of professional. i have gone through the proper route into to taking this degree, if that is what you can call it, by spending two years taking and passing 3 a-levels only to find that persons of very much substandard intelligence sneaking in. to add insult to injury these radiographic assistants are being paid for their struggle???? what a joke! the society of radiographers must take a look at their recruitment policies, as i can only see more students like myself feeling the same way. why be a diagnostic radiographer and going through 5 years of hardship when you can get a job as a radiographic assistant and then pretend to be a qualified professional. for experienced radiographers this may not seem like an issue, however for students, and newly qualified radiographers, it is. i enjoy what i do but each and every day i feel that the course and profession is being devalued by the inclusion of radiographic assistants. why do radiographic assistants be allowed to go on i.v courses? we are not being trained to administer drugs by i.v. do radiographic assistants have to sit through endless radiation science lectures?? do they have any understanding of radiation? i guess not? what about anatomy? what about physiology? would you expect your GP to be of inadequate intelligence? what about our patients? will they be informed that they are be examined by "helpers"? i dont think they will?? this situation needs to be made very clear to all affected. has anyone asked newly qualified radiographers or current students if they agree with this situation? again, i guess not?? to end, i am not bitter, but thoughtful about the future of my chosen profession. the future is not bright, the future is not orange, the future is fully qualified professionals. i hope to be one. would you like your children to be taught by classroom assistants, and not fully qualified teachers?? tell me honestly?? i would appreciate any answers from students/newly qualifieds and other concerned radiographers. this issue needs addressing properly. thanks for reading Catman X Re: assistant practitioners - Mark Nolan October 29, 2003, 1:10 pm Posted by Mark Nolan on October 29, 2003, 1:10 pm, in reply to "Re: assistant practitioners" 62.6.139.12 Using 'substandard intelligence' as an argument against assistant practitioners is ridiculous. The level of UCAS points required to gain entry on to most BSc Diagnostic Radiography programmes is so low I hardly think it's valid to claim any more intelligence on either party. However, I do feel there is a legitimate concern that this kind of 'conflict' (as displayed on this message board) will arise in radiography departments throughout the UK. The biggest problem I see is that conventional radiography students do not get paid and assistant practitioners do, though I appreciate that this is a more convoluted problem than I describe. The whole system needs reworking much the way it did when DCR's became BSC's.
62.6.139.14 Not only am I horrified to read such rubbish,I would be utterly disgusted to work with someone who has such negative views. Myself and fellow students fully back the recruitment and training of assistant practitioners, who will help to cut down hospital waiting times. At the end of the day its all about providing a fast and efficient service to the patients. Prejudice buggers can bugger off and find something that is actually important to moan about! *s* 195.107.47.229 Normally I would not give a weasel like you the time of day but I am so inscenced by you innaccurate and quite frankly totally offensive comments. I am a second year Assistant Practitioner student at Papworth Hospital. I came into the course having no hospital experience (the same as 99% of degree students). I know all this won't matter to you but I have 10 GCSE passes and 2 'A' levels, so I am not below the standard of anyone (especially you). I went through a very strict interview process to get onto the course, where I had to prove both my academic and social skills. I'm sorry to hear of your financial problems. Would you like to borrow some money from my huge wage packet? Oh no wait, this is the real world and I have a mortgage and 2 children to support. I suppose you'd rather have someone like me at home living off benefits (which you pay through taxes). Actually I think i'll do that, it sounds a much better option. You can pay for me to stay at home while you work 40 hours a week and do 24 hour on-calls. I feel quite sorry for you because I don't think you'll pass the course (I know it's hard to accept it, but I feel it is the case). Even a 'person of substandard intelligence' like me knows you should do research before shouting your mouth off about a subject (which face it you know little about). We complete academic assesments to gain credits (same credits as you!!!)We have study to complete (shock! horror!)We have to pass clinical assesments to be able to work in the department(no! surely not!!). I love my job and I feel very fortunate to be doing it. The people I work with are fantastic (which includes degree students) and have taken time to understand what we are doing. They also appreciate the need for more quailfied help in the departments. It is people like you that will bring the profession to it's knees. We've now got the society on our side and I think people such as yourself will eventually be as despised as you despise us. I feel that Radiography chose me and i'm told that is what will make me a good Assistant Radiographer. You obviously slipped through net and I pity any hospital you work at in the future. My name is Jenna Atherton by the way, that's J-E-N-N-A. At least I have the dignity to put my name- what's the matter worried that we might find you? Or that you might be blacklisted from hospitals for your narrow minded, offensive and totally inaccurate comments. When it comes down to it you don't know me and I don't know you (thank god!)but in the future keep your opinions to yourself. Posted by Trudi Clark on November 12, 2003, 6:30 pm, in reply to "Re: assistant practitioners" 217.154.249.208 Hi Jenna It's Trudi from Hinchingbrooke (fellow student at APU). I just wanted to say that I feel catman, obviously feels very threatend by our existance. To be honest I think he has every reason to, after all how many weeks clinical experience do conventional students get per year 9? how many do we 48. How much holiday do we get per year 4weeks, how many weeks will he get 12-15weeks. Perhaps he should be reminded that Radiography after all is a practical vocation and who will have the most experience upon qualifying? Look forward to meeting up with you at the next study day, regards Trudi Re: assistant practitioners - Trudi Clark November 12, 2003, 9:33 pm Posted by Trudi Clark on November 12, 2003, 9:33 pm, in reply to "Re: assistant practitioners" 217.154.248.241 I apologise to all you undergraduates out there for my retaliation to Catman. I pride myself with the maturity not to be drawn into petty arguments and I am ashamed that I have lowered myself to Catman's level. I meant no disrespect to all you students, you all work hard to acheive your degrees and I appreciate that. AP's also work hard to acheive there diploma's. So lets stop this them and us attitude and start working brilliantly together as a team. Posted by Phil Robson on October 24, 2003, 12:03 pm, in reply to "Re: assistant practitioners" 195.107.47.197 Hi Jenna, it's Phil at Peterborough District Hospital. I've already replied to Catboy or whatever his name is - I think I put "a very angry 'helper'", but just wanted to say that you were spot on. Phil Posted by Alison Whalley on October 24, 2003, 2:21 pm, in reply
to "Re: assistant practitioners FAO Jenna Atherton" Posted by Chris James on December 21, 2003, 6:39 pm, in reply to "Re: assistant practitioners FAO Jenna Atherton" 195.92.194.17 Ali,I agree that AP's have a place in radiography in the future. With the experience that I have gained working with you at G.R.H.,I feel that only positive things can come out of the push to broaden the horizons of dedicated professionals like yourself. I understand the feelings of other professionals,but it does depend,I feel,on the manpower situation in an individual department,the resultant needs of management,and how A.F.C. may influence such progress. There is a future for AP's. Chris James. Posted by El Tel on November 10, 2003, 6:49 pm, in reply to "Re: assistant practitioners FAO Jenna Atherton" 213.48.224.140 Hello jenna, just thought i'd drop a line to show my support for your response to catblokey or whatever his name is. I'm a third year student at the moment and hopefully if all goes well i'll be finishing this year. I've got to be honest with you, whilst in my first year, i did hear the jungle drums about the APs (like we all did) on how it was gonna affect us as students, how they are getting paid an i've got to tell you, initially was worried. I may have been worried but i have always tried to keep a neutral perspective. Now in my final placements i've had the opportunity to work with AP's. They're professional and good at what they do. I can honestly say anyone who has worked with AP's and has a basic understanding of what they do would write such crap. My only problem is the pay while learning setup. I just want to make it clear that this is a problem i have with the structure and the Society and not AP's in anyway. Posted by Nick Oldnall on November 11, 2003, 3:29 pm, in reply to "Re: assistant practitioners FAO Jenna Atherton" 81.174.200.30 I can sympathise with any student who finds it hard to fund their student training I remember thinking the same many years ago - however one of the reasons for APs being funded as they are is that part of the reason being their creation was to ease the shortage of radiographers / students entering the profession, it was an initiative from higher up. The situation of how much it costs to be a student is not a matter for APs etc but a matter to be taken up with the government, have all those who have expressed opinions etc contacted their MPs complained in a professional manner etc? In my own situation our APs are paid during training but they do not work/study as APs all the time they perform a varity of rolls and and I think this is true in other cases from experience of talking to departments in the south west.
62.6.139.14 For the attention of Catman. I have been a Radiographer Helper for over 14 years and hope that the opportunity to train as an Assistant Practitioner will happen for me. I feel that if students of your mental calibre are being trained to enter the 'caring' profession, the NHS will need all the help they can get! I am not going to waste my time convincing you that I am of or above average intelligence, as I am not angry at your attitude, just feel pity for you. Try not to be so self obsessed and think of others, it will help you in your career progression. Oh, and perhaps skip one of your anatomy classes and have an intensive course in English, grammar in particular. Finally, I am only too thankyou you chose Radiography as you career and not politics. Vivien Godwin Radiographer Helper Stafford England
Posted by Jim Bob on October 24, 2003, 9:53 am, in reply to "Re:
assistant practitioners"
trauma - paul October 20, 2003, 6:31 pm trauma
njo/2/Re: trauma
- Nick Oldnall October 20, 2003, 8:37 pm njo/2/Re: trauma
njo/Re: trauma
- Nick Oldnall October 20, 2003, 8:29 pm njo/Re: trauma
Re: njo/Re: trauma
- paul October 23, 2003, 9:36 pm Re: njo/Re: trauma
digital imaging - dave October 20, 2003, 5:45 pm digital
imaging Posted by Nick Oldnall on October 20, 2003, 8:32 pm, in reply to "digital imaging" 81.174.204.67 Your best bet is to look at equipment manufacturers sites eg Seimens.. Phillips etc... on the Kodak site there are some downloads on digital with case studies from a variety of places Are you looking at a total DR system without cassettes etc or a CR version? Have a look in Rad magazine there are often good info sections on a regular basis.. Nick
angiography - robert October 20, 2003, 5:41 pm angiography Posted by Nick Oldnall on October 20, 2003, 5:48 pm, in reply to "angiography" 81.174.202.3 Hi Robert I,m not very familiar with what goes on in Ireland, to make some sort of comparison you could enquire as to radiographers at you local branch of SOR then compare local practice with either a selection of UK hospitals of currect uK based text books.. I,m nor sure what you want to compare - is it film series - patient prep - patient outcomes - let me know your hypothesis ... Good luck Nick ercp
- jj October 20, 2003, 12:35 pm ercp 195.107.47.4 Hi there Its difficult to be precise! in different places there are different levels of support, in some nursing staff do all the patient care aspects and the radiographers do the image manipulation storage and printing along with equipment dose recording etc, other places the radiographers do it all. The best idea if you cant see one on placement is to look in a procedure manual Nakiely & Chapman is good and make a list of the tasks. Good luck Nick
Dental radiography - Emma October 16, 2003, 3:33 pm 195.93.33.7 Hi Emma, I have got a great book on dental radiography. It comes with a c.d and is called Torres and Ehrlich... Modern Dental Assisting. It look brand new and i am selling it for £10+p&p. - Nick Oldnall October 16, 2003, 4:58 pm Posted by Nick Oldnall on October 16, 2003, 4:58 pm, in reply to "Dental radiography" 195.107.47.4 The kodak website has two excellent downloads, one on Pan oral and one on intra oral radiography Cheers Nick
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